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Brotherly Manlove by Winchesters (23) - Manlove by the Family Winchester
Other things may change us, but we start and end with the family.
sargraf
spn_manlove
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Brotherly Manlove by Winchesters (23)
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Comments
aizjanika From: aizjanika Date: December 3rd, 2006 04:13 am (UTC) (Link)
Oh, gosh! I loved this so much. I'm not even sure I really get all of it, but it's really beautiful and thoughtful. I love this episode more each time I see it. It's really the first SPN episode I've wanted to watch many, many times. :-)

I could comment on every one of your comments, but I think I'm going to limit myself to this one because this is something that I've been thinking about recently:

It's one of the moments that illustrates that he would protect his brother even from their father, if he had to. He protected his brother's powers from detection and exposure to the point of keeping even their father in the dark for much of the first season, when he could have very easily (and naturally, as a matter of great fear and concern) mentioned them during the phone call of Home. He didn't. He safeguarded his brother in every possible way from every other living, dead or undead creature that did or could threaten him. It's moments like those, and this one now, that speak to where his instinct is and to which "side" he naturally gravitates.

I'm not entirely sure how you feel about John, but I love John, for all his flaws, and I do think that he and Dean had a close relationship. I think that Dean may have confided in him some things that he wouldn't have told Sam as a child--speaking to John adult-to-adult, even when Dean was a child himself, and especially as he became a teen and began hunting with John more and more. As insecure as Dean was, I think there was also a lot of love there, too. I also think that more of Dean's insecurities came to the fore when John ditched him before season 1 even began.

BUT...what Dean said to the boy in Bugs has always struck me as indicative of the way he would have handled John. (I forget the exact quote and I should look it up, but it was about the truth never working with parents or something like that.)

Dean may not lie to the ones he loves about the big things (usually), but I believe he'd have used lies and minor deceit to get what he wanted from time to time or to either protect Sam or get Sam what he wanted, as long as Dean felt it was reasonable and safe. What I mean is that I think that Dean would have lied to John so that Sam could go to a party or be involved in some school thing that John didn't know about or care about. If Sam wanted to stay home and do homework instead of going off on some hunt, I think Dean might have tried to find a way for him to do so now and then. I could imagine Dean being a master of faking sick or convincing John that Sam was slightly ill and better be left at home. *g* Or something like that. *g*

If Sam did something he knew John would disapprove of, I think Dean would have lied to protect him. If they weren't sure if John would allow something, I think that Dean would have made the decision himself and made sure John didn't find out about it or control when and how John found out about it.

John said that Dean took care of Sammy and took care of John. I think Dean knew how to handle John. Dean is essentially a people-oriented empathetic type of person, and I think he would have used that with John to protect Sam.

I'm not sure, though, that Dean would have viewed it as taking sides exactly. If he felt John was right, he'd have supported him. If he felt he could handle the situation, whatever it was, he'd have made his own decision about it and either made sure John didn't know about it or taken the heat himself--handling John in his own way to minimize any need for damage control. John was the father, but Dean was essentially the mother (to Sam). *g* In a way, and I mean this in a non-sexual way, Dean was the "wife" to John, too. John treated him more as a partner at times, and looked to him for support and help as much as he spent time training Dean to be the support and help for both himself and Sam. Or...er...something like that. hehe
sargraf From: sargraf Date: December 8th, 2006 01:29 am (UTC) (Link)
Thank you so much! (And by now, I'm a broken record, but I'm really sorry that my reply is so late.)

About John: I don't love him. I went through a hate period, but right now, I'm neither passionately for or against. Given characterization issues (as opposed to mere lack of equal screen time), he's not as real a character to me as the brothers are, so I find it difficult to discuss him now without getting into how the writers, actor, etc., have built him.

That said, I get what you're saying. And I'm not trying to present Dean as the epitome of truth-telling, not at all. He clearly lies all the time, and he lies about facts such as what they do for a living. I think it's probable that he would lie to John for Sam's sake in one of the scenarios you mention, like an elder brother (or mother figure) might.

I just found it interesting that he did not tell John, Dean's ultimate mentor of all things supernatural (not to mention Demon-related), about Sam's supernatural powers. He never even called to say, "Hey, Dad, Sam's having visions and it freaks out both of us." He safeguarded Sam's tremendous secret from absolutely everyone else, up to and including John, and I assume it was because of his protectiveness. That's how it felt to me, but that's a subjective view.

(...I can see him keeping this current secret from Sam, if the nature of the secret makes it believable, but if it's one of the popular variations, I'm going to have a hard time believing that Dean would keep it from him. Plot contrivance might bolster characterization, or it might abuse it. We'll see.)
aizjanika From: aizjanika Date: December 8th, 2006 03:53 am (UTC) (Link)
I think I meant to agree with you. *g* I think that Dean was protective of Sam--even with John. That was my convoluted point. hehe

He never even called to say, "Hey, Dad, Sam's having visions and it freaks out both of us." He safeguarded Sam's tremendous secret from absolutely everyone else, up to and including John, and I assume it was because of his protectiveness. That's how it felt to me, but that's a subjective view.

Yeah, but I tend to agree. It's interesting. I'm not sure if that was so much a conscious choice so much as maybe a subconscious choice. If John had been there and been available, he might have told him, but maybe not. He didn't tell him in Bloodlust either. OTOH, maybe it was more his inability to deal with it and find out what it might mean.
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